Curse

brian78wa · Apr 23, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

brian78wa, yes I'm a programmer. Not going to argue, if you think it could not happen you have no clue. But if you can write a program that could never, EVER crash, apply at microsoft.

lol. Im not saying that a program wouldnt crash. But I gaurentee you that the post you wrote would never happen.

brian78wa · Apr 23, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheep1220

Simply posting that you spent 2 hours farming the UW and came up empty on ectos does not constitute a valid research sample, and I think until you conduct adequate testing, you should at least remain optimistic.

Actually it does. It costs 1k to get into UW. Before the nerf if you went in even if you didnt get ecto you could still come out with atleast 2k profit.
Now I spend 1k and if im lucky ill come out with 300g profit but more often I end up losing money. The golds and greens and such are nice for money making but its not the biggest part because more oftne than not you wont get a drop thats good enough to sell for a decent amount. The majority of the cash flow comes from the white/purple drops along with cash.

sheep1220 · Apr 23, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

But again, that isnt something that was disputed. They told you that they are lowering the money drop, so you knew that going in. Now you can look at UW/FoW runs like high level chests (normal mode) and locked chests (hard mode). Sure they can end up getting you really nice items, but at a cost of +1k, its a gamble, and quite often you end up not turning a profit. I still don't see anything wrong with that (you dont see people who use chests complain that high level chests should ALWAYS return at least the amount of money that you paid for it, in addition to an item). You can look at the UW as a very fancy chest. Sure it doesn't cost as much as some other high level chests, but it also requires some time, but can also yield much greater rewards.

Yeah, money drops were lowered, and it was done so to slow down botting, it's now up to you to decide whether or not you will run UW for the golds (and possible ectos), knowing that you aren't just making free money with no chance of losing anything. I promise you that there will still be people (both solo, and in groups) that will still run UW, either for the experience and fun of it, or for the possible godly drops from the zone.

I am sorry that this upsets you, but just like in life, you've gotta spend money to make money.

Teracus · Apr 23, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

So if I go to hard mode can I do this in pre-searing to get the Legendary defender in days instead of months. Assuming I find another level 20 in Pre?

brian78wa · Apr 23, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheep1220

Yeah, money drops were lowered, and it was done so to slow down botting,

Then nerf the bots not us. Its not hard to tell who the bots are.

brian78wa · Apr 23, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheep1220

Now you can look at UW/FoW runs like high level chests (normal mode) and locked chests (hard mode). Sure they can end up getting you really nice items, but at a cost of +1k, its a gamble, and quite often you end up not turning a profit. I still don't see anything wrong with that (you dont see people who use chests complain that high level chests should ALWAYS return at least the amount of money that you paid for it, in addition to an item). You can look at the UW as a very fancy chest. Sure it doesn't cost as much as some other high level chests, but it also requires some time, but can also yield much greater rewards.

Chest runs are not just for the gold though. Alot of people do the chest runs for the Title. Just as ecto was nice to get but thats not the only reason I farm. Its the lower end stuff that makes most of the money and salvage items for armor.

Velath · Apr 23, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teracus

So if I go to hard mode can I do this in pre-searing to get the Legendary defender in days instead of months. Assuming I find another level 20 in Pre?

I don't believe there is a hard mode in pre-searing.

sheep1220 · Apr 23, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Teracus: I also dont believe there is a hard mode for pre-searing, as it would sort of defeat the purpose of the title (even though the title is pretty much a long grind).

brian78wa: yes, but that's not necessarily the only reason for lowering money drops. I believe the main reason (from past experiences with Anet) is to reduce the overall amount of gold that accumilates in the gw market. This is also the reason for many other money sinks in the game. For example, the titles requiring purchases (such as drunkard, etc), fancy armors (which cost more in money and pricey materials), etc. By reducing the overall amount of money in the game, they lower the depreciation of it.

The goal (as I see it) has always been to keep the game interesting for players, but to give them plenty of things to invest in as to not make gold worthless (as it became in games like D2). I think they have done that quite well with this most recent patch, by increasing certain drops players were going for, but reducing other things such as gold drops. That means that farmers can still make money off of the stuff they were farming (and selling/trading what they dont want), while not allowing them (and bots) to simply farm money as fast.

As it stands, casual non-farmers (such as myself) can still make enough gold to support their characters, and farmers can make more, but not by a huge factor. Like I stated in an earlier post, I believe all the game is missing now is a valid trade system (auction house or other), which will both lower the overall price of items for the community, while still allowing farmers (and even casuals, on a smaller scale) to make money (possibly even more so than now due to access to the entire game community). Of course certain items such as ectos will not lose value, which will keep people from whining too much

...Then again, those who like to whine will always find a reason.

Vinraith · Apr 23, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

So essentially they've made the AI in the normal game (the game I'm realistically going to play) easier? And they've eliminated any reason to try for the challenge of playing with a smaller party? Wow, just... wow. Combine that with destroying every PvE build I enjoyed with my necro and I could almost get the feeling that Anet doesn't want me playing their game anymore. Bummer.

And for the "can I have your stuff?" crowd no, I've still got a couple of friends that play. What little I have goes to them if I quit.

sheep1220 · Apr 24, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

So essentially they've made the AI in the normal game (the game I'm realistically going to play) easier? And they've eliminated any reason to try for the challenge of playing with a smaller party? Wow, just... wow. Combine that with destroying every PvE build I enjoyed with my necro and I could almost get the feeling that Anet doesn't want me playing their game anymore. Bummer.

...let me get this straight. You complain that normal mode was made slightly easier, but also because hard mode isn't good enough? they gave you another whole difficulty setting ...

if you want to play in a small party, either do that in normal mode, or hard mode. not all areas have an 8 player cap, and even the ones that do dont always require it.

and yes brian, this is exactly what i was talking about.

Vinraith · Apr 24, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

they gave you another whole difficulty setting ...

"If you don't like the game's difficulty level, just play through the entire campaign so that you can replay it at a higher difficulty." My, what a tempting offer, who could fail to find that fun?

sheep1220 · Apr 24, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Just because you don't find enjoyment in it does not mean that others may not. All I said is that you were whining that the game is too easy now on normal (yet refuse to play hard mode).

brian78wa · Apr 24, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheep1220

as ectos will not lose value, which will keep people from whining too much

...Then again, those who like to whine will always find a reason.

First of all people need to quit using the word whining when it comes to people expressing there dislike for this nerf cause it was the REAL whiners that caused the nerf to begin with.

Second on the ecto comment. Heres a post from a guildie on our forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Guildie

i started a new char n prophecies n my 2nd account just to see what its like and Jeeeezz its taking too long to work on YAKS BEND armor.i go out for like an hour with hench for cash and i dnt get enough for a whole set of low level armor...imagine how long itl take for new guys to get droks armor. at this rate even if u play thru Tyria NORMALY u wont even have enough for a full droks set once u get to forge..cuz u still have to buy salvage kits for craft mats as u make your way thru the game. what more for 15k armor??!! or FOW armor? lol good luck with that..i farmed LB points for 8 hrs. only made 5k after all that. those were high level monsters out there. not even enough for max armor...and yeah ANet fixed that a little but hey, u wont get black die or ecto all the time ryt? its the common loot that people need. thats where the money is. thats where the craft mats needed for armor are also. i did one hydra solo run. took me 20 minutes. all i got was 2 wands and an earth staff.

Farming LB for 8 hours and only geting 5k? 2 wands and an earth staff for killing all the hydra?

NO gold drops NO ecto NO rares. See its the lower drops where people actually make there money. So they exempted rares and such(which I still havent seen) like he said they wont drop all the time now will they? They dont drop even close to enough to make a decent amount of money for things you need. and when Golds DO drop 90% of the time they suck. Cant sell them.

savage vapor 33 · Apr 24, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

For the new players, yes it will be hard at first, but it was like that for the now veteran players. The only 3 professions to use were monk, necro, and war to farm back in those days. If you didn't make one of those professions, consider yourself not making any money.

For the newer players....Make a monk. Get him to droks, however u can. Make a 55 farm, and farm trolls. Your money will add up over time. That's how all the veterans started also.

brian78wa · Apr 24, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by savage vapor 33

For the new players, yes it will be hard at first, but it was like that for the now veteran players. The only 3 professions to use were monk, necro, and war to farm back in those days. If you didn't make one of those professions, consider yourself not making any money.

For the newer players....Make a monk. Get him to droks, however u can. Make a 55 farm, and farm trolls. Your money will add up over time. That's how all the veterans started also.

It wasnt like this for now veteran players. Because before the nerf when you farm you would actually get drops such as gold. Now they rarely drop for solo farmers. So for new players this doesnt work anymore. Also to farm they would need the money to buy the skills(not happening to quickly with nerf in place) buy the armor(also not happening) buy the runes(DEFINITELY not happening).

sheep1220 · Apr 25, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian78wa

Farming LB for 8 hours and only geting 5k? 2 wands and an earth staff for killing all the hydra?

I call BS on that (or your friend just had terrible luck). I farmed LB in the mirror of lyss (hard mode) and made a lot more than that, including over a dozen purples, several golds and a ruby from salvage. I think you need to do some testing yourself before taking the word of guildies, as I find it extremely hard to believe he made what he said he made. In 8 hours of farming, the money drops will surpass that (even in a party of 8, getting roughly 100 from mobs who drop gold). Not to mention that his "one solo run" isn't enough to get a good sample (as mentioned in an earlier post). You know, I'm sure I can also state that I ran DoA and didn't get a good item in 1 run, does that mean that no good items drop in DoA? no.

As for the Yak's Bend thing, starting a fresh character was never easy (with no money/mats to transfer). Sure you can save up some by questing and such if that is what you want, or you can use the collectors armors.

I don't belive it was whiners that caused this patch, it was merely the fact that over time, the economy accumilated too much money, and the prices of certain items skyrocketed (100k + 30 ectos, etc), which is far higher than what Anet intended items going for. But seeing as how this is merely a speculation (as is your whiners theory), and neither of us can really do much about it now, I suggest you make the best of it.

Personally I really haven't noticed any sort of drop nerf in normal/hard mode for groups (even smaller groups, as i sometimes play with 3 other friends in an 8 man zone, and still notice some increased drops compared to playing with a full group).

brian78wa · Apr 25, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheep1220

I call BS on that (or your friend just had terrible luck). I farmed LB in the mirror of lyss (hard mode) and made a lot more than that, including over a dozen purples, several golds and a ruby from salvage. I think you need to do some testing yourself before taking the word of guildies, as I find it extremely hard to believe he made what he said he made. In 8 hours of farming, the money drops will surpass that (even in a party of 8, getting roughly 100 from mobs who drop gold). Not to mention that his "one solo run" isn't enough to get a good sample (as mentioned in an earlier post). You know, I'm sure I can also state that I ran DoA and didn't get a good item in 1 run, does that mean that no good items drop in DoA? no.

As for the Yak's Bend thing, starting a fresh character was never easy (with no money/mats to transfer). Sure you can save up some by questing and such if that is what you want, or you can use the collectors armors.

I don't belive it was whiners that caused this patch, it was merely the fact that over time, the economy accumilated too much money, and the prices of certain items skyrocketed (100k + 30 ectos, etc), which is far higher than what Anet intended items going for. But seeing as how this is merely a speculation (as is your whiners theory), and neither of us can really do much about it now, I suggest you make the best of it.

Personally I really haven't noticed any sort of drop nerf in normal/hard mode for groups (even smaller groups, as i sometimes play with 3 other friends in an 8 man zone, and still notice some increased drops compared to playing with a full group).

Its not BS. This is a guildie that I know doesnt lie. Hes been in my guild for almost 2 years. Ive also ran many areas to where I would get 2-3 golds per run and now I cant even get 1. So I HAVE done my own testing. Ive farmed in Normal and hard mode and there is a HUGE difference in the amount of golds/rare whatever. I used to do Dead Sword farming to get some cash and materials and I would ALWAYS have atleast 1 gold drop per run. I have now done this run 5 times and I have not gotten 1 gold drop. And im farming this in Hard mode. You talk about going with a group. well this nerf doesnt effect groups any. Its us solo farmers it hurts. Which is what My guildie was doing with LB is soloing. so no its NOT bs. They need to just leave normal mode..you know um NORMAL. Make hard mode bad for soloing I dont care but give us something. And before someone says they did give us something by exempting certain items Ill say this again. Its the cash and the normal drops where farmers make there cash. They get lucky with other items. Leave the farming code in if they need to just leave normal alone.

Der Zeitgeist · Apr 25, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I wont complain about loot scaling...solo farming.... Solo was way too easy depending on class and knowledge of the game (and wiki and all these farm builds) and gold pieces were easy to collect out of a solo farm. I can still solo areas, with better drops now in HM, allthough the cash flow dropped a bit. But that's no problem i think. (I still don't get it why ppl do such a fuss about gold... is there a bank or sthg that gives you interest?).

I wont complain about Normal and Hard Mode feature. Sorta

. Good thing is it adds some interest for old players like myself to replay some of my favourite areas, not just stroll, but fight my way through. And remembering once again what a good human party is (not the "have this build on you" kinda groups). Having fun with others is what this game lacked, primary because of the easy progression and loot drop and secondary due to the immaturity of a considerable number of players (smthg that i think will not be avoided, even more scalled when GW 2 gets rolling...)

But.... Is making Normal Mode "tie my left arm in armchair, i still can kill mobs while i roll a ciggy" ,with kinda stupid AI from foes, doing any good in playability? Maps seem kinda easier than before... And buffing up mobs in Hard Mode is this the solution to giving a better game? I dunno... i know i don't have the answer but this whole thing doesn't seem much of an improvement. One of my officers suggested that ANET should incorporate community made builds in mobs, other that mobs should have a randomness in builds and/or spawns... I still dunno what can make this game better but the chosen path ANET is taking seems sorta not the best way...

I WILL COMPLAIN

about heroes behaviour though... They are totally, utterly, completely.... stupid in HM. First i thought builds were wrong... Then i tested them in areas i solo and still i thought i had a bunch of Madame Tisot's resin statues with me.... Are heroes trying to hypnotize foes by starring at them while getting beaten up? Is this a new approach to obliterate a mob? ANET should improve (and fast pls) heroes' AI.

I could write all day about the update, both good and bad things but these few comments i think are enough to get my point of view

sheep1220 · Apr 25, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Zeitgeist

I wont complain about loot scaling...solo farming.... Solo was way too easy depending on class and knowledge of the game (and wiki and all these farm builds) and gold pieces were easy to collect out of a solo farm. I can still solo areas, with better drops now in HM, allthough the cash flow dropped a bit. But that's no problem i think. (I still don't get it why ppl do such a fuss about gold... is there a bank or sthg that gives you interest?).

I wont complain about Normal and Hard Mode feature. Sorta

. Good thing is it adds some interest for old players like myself to replay some of my favourite areas, not just stroll, but fight my way through. And remembering once again what a good human party is (not the "have this build on you" kinda groups). Having fun with others is what this game lacked, primary because of the easy progression and loot drop and secondary due to the immaturity of a considerable number of players (smthg that i think will not be avoided, even more scalled when GW 2 gets rolling...)

agreed. As for making normal mode easier, you have to realize that guild wars was made to cater to casual players. Unlike other MMOs which pretty much required avid gamers with lots of time, there are people who play gw that may not be great at gaming (I have a friend who fits that description quite well). As such, some of them had voiced concern that the game was too tough for them (for example, people who don't own NF and had problems with henchies). I can also vouch that I used to find several places in prophecies troublesome with henchies back in my early days, when I didn't exactly know of what great builds to use. I don't see a problem by easing normal mode a bit to make it more accessible to casuals, since hard mode can work for people who know the game quite well and can manage.

I haven't noticed too much problems with my heroes in hard mode, but since you arent the first person to have voiced that, I agree that it's definitely something that Anet needs to look into (and I'm sure they will).

Like I said in an earlier post, after a game-changing patch like this, it normally takes around 2-3 weeks "for the dust to settle" and see what overall effects it had on the players and community. This applies to drops, difficulty, AI, titles, and item market, all of which will be looked at to check if they need to be re-evaluated. For the time being, just sit back and make the best of it

Cold · Apr 26, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Heros are stupid and I can live with that. But when those idiots heal minions... I want to kill them